tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7504838501064016605.post490392799531233733..comments2024-01-30T07:27:35.186-06:00Comments on Codex Justinianus: Aristotelian Metaphysics, Arianism, and the Roots of the Great SchismJustinianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18207103546838127832noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7504838501064016605.post-70648807545160617692010-02-15T09:42:18.274-06:002010-02-15T09:42:18.274-06:00Anon, thanks for the comment.
First, let me say t...Anon, thanks for the comment.<br /><br />First, let me say that this is still very much a "work in progress" sort of thing, and not intended as any kind of final or definitive statement on the subject (which I personally believe to be impossible to pronounce anyway).<br /><br />With regard to the Eunomian comparison--you're right, it is often used as a cheap shot by people who do not sufficiently understand either Enomius or St. Augustine. However, I will deny your conclusion that "the Latins" do not confuse Person and Nature; St. Augustine strives hard against it, but with his position on the Holy Spirit being "the love between the Father and the Son" (thus a derivative thing), it is almost impossible to do. The problem with "the Latins" in later development is that, in my opinion, no one in the West took account of precisely what this paper argues: that St. Augustine was <i>not</i> making universal doctrinal statements, be was speaking to a particular group at a particular time with particular problems. And, as the citation from St. Photios shows, in such cases, the Church even sanctifies sophistry used with <i>economia</i>. In the newer version of this paper (which, perhaps, will get a posting sometime in the future), the argument is further fleshed out re: Arianism (addressing Dr. Bradshaw's concerns/doubts posted above), as well as including a short explanation of the Orthodox idea of what <i>economia</i> is. (That latter point would not have been good with the original audience for whom this was intended.)<br /><br />The fact of the matter is, Aquinas <i>does</i> implicitly confuse the person/nature distinction with his statement that God is identified with His Will; his further statement that the other "personal" characteristics associated with God in the Scriptures (anger, repentance, wrath, as a consuming fire, &c.) are due to the attribution of creaturely, created intellects is absolutely a contradiction to the idea that there is no confusion over person/nature in "Latin" theology as it coalesced during the high medieval period.<br /><br />The Orthodox position on the relationship between Person and Nature is exactly what drawing a distinction between God's <i>essence</i> and His <i>energies</i> is all about. The three Persons of the Trinity share the single divine Nature (which is the <i>essence</i> of the Divinity). The Personhood is connected to the energies of God, which is how God reveals Himself and is known to His creation. St. Gregory Palamas is clear, however, that the energies are not a mere appearance or created interaction (which would be Modalism), but that both the Essence and the Energies are what God is--and how this can be is just part of the great mystery of God.<br /><br />Thanks again for the comment; you've given me some opportunity to think over some good topics for a later revision.Justinianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18207103546838127832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7504838501064016605.post-68801620646784337822010-02-12T15:25:14.319-06:002010-02-12T15:25:14.319-06:00I've been investigating this issue for a while...I've been investigating this issue for a while and consider it inaccurate and cheap to link Augustine to Eunomius (hoping for a quick victory), which sadly seems to be the 'go-to' comparison in these talks. Eunomius flatly denied the person-nature distinction, Augustine (and the Latins) did not. So it's slander to associate the two, regardless of how supposedly "close" they sounded and given Nyssa rebukes Eunomius for abusing Christian terms. With this (and other things) in mind, St Gregory Nyssa was attacking a different issue. The term 'absolute' is being abused here, because for Eunomius 'absolute' entailed taking all terms *synonymously* (esp 'person' is synonymous with 'nature) where as Latins are not at all doing this. <br />Nyssa plainly rebukes Eunomius for attributing 'simplicity' to person, stating it only applies to nature. <br /> <br />One real difficulty which is *ODDLY* overlooked in these talks is how Person is defined/understood. The definition of person is hard for me to pin down, and given how this is never focused upon, indicates to me that most people dont really get it either. The most fundamental orthodox principle is that there are Three Persons in One Nature, with Person and Nature not being synonymous and thus Christians are not espousing an absurd "1=3" math problem. That said, Person is not to be understood as a 'separate thing' such that "Father combines with Divine Nature to result in 'God the Father'". Thus, in *some sense* Person and Nature are identified without being synonyms. It is this latter issue which Latins address and are sadly caricatured as teaching an absolute identity (synonym) between the two.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7504838501064016605.post-11800177951707782862009-05-14T21:35:00.000-05:002009-05-14T21:35:00.000-05:00Christ is risen! Thanks for your kind comments ab...Christ is risen! Thanks for your kind comments about my work. Just a quick disclaimer -- I don't think that all the differences between East & West can be traced to philosophy, nor that all the theological differences originate with Augustine. The whole story is extremely complex, but for starters one might consult "Franks, Romans, and Feudalism" by John Romanides for some of the other important factors. I still think the roots of Augustine's view of divine simplicity lie more in his early Neoplatonism than in the exigencies of the Arian controversy, but I appreciate your trying to introduce some new ideas. (See further my contribution to the recent book, "Orthodox Readings of Augustine.") May God bless your work. In Christ, David BradshawDavid Bradshawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7504838501064016605.post-5460103649854495642009-05-13T10:50:00.000-05:002009-05-13T10:50:00.000-05:00you need the smart guys over at Energetic Processi...you need the smart guys over at Energetic Procession to comment.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062999048967664941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7504838501064016605.post-41800887854257153612009-05-13T09:54:00.000-05:002009-05-13T09:54:00.000-05:00Fascinating.Fascinating.Kareneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10667837296400065844noreply@blogger.com